Episode #023 – Crypto Brew Show Syndication With Justin Renken Of

The twenty-third episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week we syndicate an episode of the Crypto Brew Show, where a group a guys crack open a cold one and talk shop on everything crypto. I was a special guest for their new format Taproom Talk, and we discussed ARK concepts and how the ARK technology, community, and team are aiming towards making blockchains easy and accessible to everyone.

Be advised, the Crypto Brew Show had rolled out a different broadcasting and recording technology for the episode, and some issues with it caused some unexpected quirks with the audio quality. We didn’t let it rain on our parade, though!

Check out the Crypto Brew Show on CryptoBrew.Show and Youtube.

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.


Episode #022 – ITK Crypto Podcast Syndication With Justin Renken Of

The twenty-second episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week we syndicate an episode of the ITK Crypto Podcast, on which I was a recent guest. I discuss ARK concepts, some of which deeper than I ever have before. It was a pleasure being a guest on the ITK Crypto Podcast, releasing new episodes periodically on Youtube.

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.


Episode #021 – Community Questions & My Crypto Year Resolutions

The twenty-first episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week we tackle some additional community questions, and I give some insight as well as guide listeners in the right direction for answers. In this episode, I’m also laying out some of my crypto year resolutions, and what I’d like to do with and for ARK this year. It’s absolutely a team effort and most of the time, I am a cog in the machine that is ARK- many people on the team and in the community will be working together on these resulutions to enhance our community.

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.


Episode #020 – 30 Days Of ARK Catch – Up Whats Next

The twentieth episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! In the same vein as last week, we continue to highlight our awesome community, as we play catch up to read out some community comments on the 30 Days of ARK. Delegate Jarunik has graciously provided 1000 ARK to be earned during this campaign, and ARK will be distributed proportionally according to word count for the entire campaign after we lock the posts. Then, the ARK Community Committee will construct a new community resource website that will immortalize all the comments. ARK will be paid out via Delegate Cryptology’s ArkTippr Reddit tip bot. Learn more about 30DOA and get involved at and learn more about ArkTippr at

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.


Episode #019 – 100% Community Questions & Nothing Else!

The ninteenth episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week is all about you, the community, as we dive into a fresh batch of community questions. There were so many, it filled up the whole episode! Keep your questions coming for future episodes by asking us on Twitter, Instagram and Reddit- look for the special posts.

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.


Episode #018 – 8 Things That Helped Me During Bear Market & More 30DOA Highlights

The eighteenth episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week we talk about eight things that helped me during the bear market.

Episode #017 – DelegateCompetition.Fund Launch, 30 Days Of ARK Entries & Crypto Love Interview

The seventeenth episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week we cover some BIG news for ARK, including the new integration with Hyperledger Fabric for smart contracts in Javascript, Go, and Solidity courtesy of incubator ARK Labs’ hard work! Not only that, but a new community fund has launched called the DelegateCompetition.Fund, and has its first competition out now. We go through a few entries for the 30 Days of ARK campaign running now on, and ONE THOUSAND ARK is earnable from Delegate Jarunik during the campaign. We wrap this episode with an exclusive interview featuring Randall from the YouTube channel Crypto Love. Boom shakalaka!

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.


Episode #016 – Community Questions, 30 Days Of ARK Reddit Campaign & Nexus Interview

The sixteenth episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week the podcast is becoming more interactive, by launching community-sourced questions discussed here on the podcast. My ARK Community Committee has been busy and is launching its second project on December 2nd, “30 Days of ARK” on the ARK Subreddit. Not only that, but this week marks the first external interview for another project here on the podcast! This concept is cool because it will start to merge other communities with ARK where new listeners will be exposed to ARK and its potential to impact the world. We kick it off with Dionna from Nexus (, interviewed at World Crypto Con in Las Vegas on the turn of November.

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.


Episode #014 – Justin Renken on the Main Stage Interoperability Panel at World Crypto Con 2018 Las Vegas Nov 2, 2018

The fourteenth episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! This week, we jump directly into the full-length recording of the Interoperability Panel which took place on the main stage of the World Crypto Con show in Las Vegas on November 2, 2018. It featured a nice host and cool co-panelists, and it was a pleasure to be a part of it.

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.

Cheers and Enjoy!


Justin: Hello crypto land, I’m Justin. It’s Friday, and this is the ARK Crypto Podcast, Episode 14.

Justin: Well, this week we have no time for pleasantries because we have a full-length interoperability discussion to get to, featuring yours truly. This recording comes to you straight from the World Crypto Con Conference in Las Vegas, at the ARIA Casino Resort, during the turn of November. This recording was provided courtesy of tech and design firm, Nice Spaceship. Nice. That’s just something I like to say, isn’t it.

Justin: Now that I think about it, I think this is the first time that someone from ARK is on a panel similar to this, on a stage, on video with multiple people up there. Let me tell you, it is harrowing and terrifying, but exhilarating. I want to give a special thanks to Ken Hodler for inviting ARK to be on this panel. Enjoy.

Speaker 1: Excellent. Thank you very much for waiting. First of all, before we start with our panel, just gonna introduce our moderator for the panel. He’s gonna talk a little bit about what they are going to discuss right in front of your very, very eyes and ears. Please, warm welcome for Ken Hodler.

Ken Hodler: Hi, everyone. Thanks. What we’re here to talk about, we’re gonna talk a little bit about interoperability, a little bit about DEXs, a little about autonomous swaps. Those are the two main use cases right now for interoperability between blockchains. But then eventually we’re gonna tie that all back to how do we drive adoption.

Ken Hodler: Who we have here, this is David from Latium.

David: That’s right.

Ken Hodler: Then we have Paul Puey from Edge Wallet, and Justin from

Justin: Exactly.

Ken Hodler: Do you guys want to give a brief introduction to yourself and what your companies do?

David: Sure. I’m David Johnson. I’m CEO of a company called Latium. Our goal is to help out mass adoption. Just trying to make things easy for the everyday person to be able to gain access, and use crypto, and grow the space.

Ken Hodler: All right, [inaudible 00:02:19]. Paul.

Paul Puey: Hi, my name is Paul Puey. I’m co-founder of Edge. We deploy a mobile wallet and a security platform for various dapps. We have a similar goal, of course. I think most people here want to achieve mass adoption. Our goal, however, is driven by trying to make key management very familiar, if not invisible. Removing the need to ever see or have to back up a private key in the wallet infrastructure, but making sure that in the process of doing that, people still achieve one of the primary goals of cryptocurrency, which is that they own and control their own money without a third party.

Ken Hodler: Great, and Justin.

Justin: Sure. My name is Justin with What we do is deploy and empower everyone to deploy fully customizable and endlessly powerful blockchain solutions without much programming knowledge needed. We feel that with mass adoption, that needs to include everyone of all different skill sets and walks of life. If they have a need for a need for a blockchain, and not everybody will need a blockchain, but if they do, they should be able to harness that power with as little barrier to entry as possible.

Ken Hodler: Paul, let me ask you a question. I want to get to some of the more automated blockchain interactions that are being built right now, that are being developed right now. We’re gonna talk about DEX and autonomous swaps a little bit. But right now, your wallet actually does some blockchain interaction by being able to exchange currencies. Can you talk a little bit about how that works?

Paul Puey: Yeah. A lot of people are familiar with exchanges in general. Deposit some money, go ahead and buy some cryptocurrency, or swap what you’ve deposited from one cryptocurrency to another, with the advent of what ShapeShift revolutionized, which is the ability to exchange crypto from blockchain to blockchain without a lot of custodial access. I say not a lot of, meaning that funds still flow through them, but you don’t ever have them sitting there for any duration of time. Our product Edge, our mobile wallet, does allow people to transact between different blockchains, or to convert cryptocurrency between any of the over a dozen blockchains that are supported without that custodial risk.

Paul Puey: Now we realize that this creates a bit of a blockchain interoperability. It doesn’t achieve what I call the hundred percent of you’re going through zero third parties, but really in the strive to achieve some of the goals of blockchain or cryptocurrency, I always ask the question of, for a project, what is its goal? What is it trying to achieve? Less of, are you decentralized? More as, what are you trying to achieve? From the goal of trying to remove custodial risk, these solutions have really gone a long, long way. They’ve removed a lot of that custodial risk. It’s nice to be able to use a non-custodial wallet, and go from one crypto to anther without that risk.

Paul Puey: Now we’re seeing multiple services like them being offered, which not only reduces some of that risk to one single party, but also gives you a broader selection. Decentralizing, not just the company, but also the options that are available, more coins that are available, as well as just the uptime. Part of decentralization’s goal is providing better uptime, and fault tolerance. By having multiple services, we are able to achieve that while achieving that goal of being able to go from one blockchain to another, to another pretty easily through these types of services. Hats of to ShapeShift. While they’re not the only one, they’re definitely one of the first and original idea.

Ken Hodler: Cool. We describe that as being version one of blockchain interoperability. Let’s talk a little bit about version two, what’s that gonna look like. One of the things that a lot of people are talking about are the DEXs. I wanted to ask you, David, to talk a little bit about … I’m not real clear on how the DEXs actually work, but I know that they’re hard to get right. I wanted to ask you if you would talk a little bit about what some of the challenges are there.

David: It’s very similar to a lot of things with blockchain. You have scalability issues, you have latency issues. But I think the biggest thing that we’re facing right now with DEXs, and one of the reasons that I don’t think you’re getting a lot of adoption into DEXs is because they’re just not that easy to use. The usability is definitely a factor when you have somebody who has to connect multiple components to make something work.

David: There’s a amount of people that will do that, but I totally agree with what Paul is doing, in trying to make that as invisible as possible. I think DEXs currently don’t do a good job of making any of the technicality involved invisible. It’s all upfront and you have to understand that, and be able to deal with it in order to use a DEX.

David: I think once we get to a place where we’re making that invisible, we can actually start getting adoption. Because the idea behind DEX, of removing a third party as a custodian is a great idea. It’s revolutionary. But people aren’t gonna use that until they could figure out how to use it in five minutes.

Ken Hodler: But do you believe that those are things that can be overcome, that usability?

David: Certainly. I think that’s one of the beautiful things about blockchain, is that it gives us this ability to create these environments where we don’t need to trust anymore. But I believe that the timelines, it’s gonna take us a very long time to get there with a lot of things ’cause we’re still early on. Very early on, in my opinion.

Ken Hodler: Yeah, true.

Paul Puey: With respect to DEXs, I think there are … If I had to bucket them into a few of the reasons why we’re having challenges in driving adoption, it falls into two or three categories. Number one, all of the DEXs, there are dapps. DEX, for those that are new, stands for decentralized exchange. How decentralized they are, hard to say, but that’s what it stands for.

Paul Puey: By being a decentralized exchange you effectively are a wallet. For the people that they currently appeal to would be the traders because the process of how you place an order. If anybody has used what I would call, more like a store, or like a ShapeShift, where you’re paying money to receive something else, it’s a fairly simple user experience. You definitely felt this with a Coinbase product where I send you some dollars, you send me some Bitcoin.

Paul Puey: Realize that DEXs currently are targeted less for that kind of user experience and more of the trader’s experience, which means that instead of me saying, “Here’s $100. Give me $100 of Bitcoin.” Instead, it’s you place an order, “I would like to place $100 down or some crypto, and I want to buy it at a certain price,” and it sits there waiting for someone else to claim the order. Or as somebody that enters the DEX, you might be somebody that claims that order. Now that’s a very popular interface for people that are used to trading on something like E-Trade.

Paul Puey: This is where you look at the difference between a really end consumer that’s not a trader, that just wants to buy something at a store, versus someone who’s a trader who places market orders and limit orders. A lot of the DEXs are, by necessity due to the technology, cater to the trader-like interface where you have to place and grab an order. That being one of the challenges.

Paul Puey: Then second to that, because they’re all DEXs, and they’re all wallets in it of themselves, they also run into the challenge of key management. If you look at most traders in the industry, most of them just want to deposit something into a completely centralized exchange and place really fancy complex orders with bots that do almost everything. They don’t know a thing about keys. The people that care about the keys are the ones that are more utilitarian. We actually want to use cryptocurrency, or have an ideological point of view of saying, “I want to hold my own money.”

Justin: Your keys, your coins.

Paul Puey: Your keys, your coins. You have a product whose UX is tailored to people that prefer a completely different product. What do we have to do to bring all that together? How do we make these in a way that DEX is blockchain interoperability? What are the challenges there, will make it feel more like a centralized exchange, make it fast, it’s another issue, and appeal to the traders? Or go in the opposite direction and provide an interface where it’s I send you one currency and just give me back the other, and hide all the complexities of orders, stop-limit orders, market orders. Just here’s the money, return something back.

Justin: Well you know Paul, you bring up a lot of really good points, and ask a lot of very interesting questions that should be asked about DEXs. What’s interesting is that ARK has been in the game for a while. Our mainnet went live March 21st, 2017. It was incepted late 2016.

Justin: One of our earliest partners that we partnered with, ’cause we love to partner with other projects and help them succeed, and everything, let them use our code base and stuff, is Blockport, which is an exchange that’s coming out, and they’re in beta right now. Where they’re actually offering a hybrid model where it’s a decentralized and centralized exchange both, and they’re giving users the power to decide what they want to do.

Justin: Now what they’re also doing is they’re acting as tendrils to other exchanges to provide the liquidity. They don’t need to necessarily rely on market makers, or get all of the users all at once, they can utilize other exchanges to get things going, and then as the decentralize aspect starts to pick up steam, and people are using that as well, then they can just tab right on over to that aspect of it.

Justin: Not only that, but it’s a social trading platform too. You can follow your favorite traders and copy their trades. It’s a really easy way …

Justin: Your favorite traders and copy their trades. It’s a really easy way to learn about how trading works and how to get your hands on different tokens that you may need for different uses. Of course, ARK is very attracted to elegant user interfaces and a very seamless experience when you’re trying to use crypto and blockchain technology. Blockport does an amazing job at that which is one of the reasons we were originally interested in partnering up with them so very relevant to what we’re talking about right here.

Paul: So we’ve talked a lot about moving assets across chains, are there other use cases that, with an eye toward driving an option of this technology, are there other use cases, and a lot of it comes back to you know we’ve all talked about some of the ideals of blockchains and cryptocurrency in general. Are there killer apps that are out there that aren’t necessarily related to the transaction of funds that will help to drive that option in terms of the blockchains or the interoperability stuff? Or just in general?

Justin: Killer apps? It’s a bit subjective like even if there are unicorns out there today it’s a bit difficult to tell if they are and who they are but that being said there should be a way to kind of make an educated guess at something that’s going to get really popular. Right now we know that there aren’t millions of users using blockchains right now. However, to make it as easy as possible it’s going to make it more inviting. For example, there are a lot of services that may not have anything to do with blockchains that get people really interested in the crypto because at ARK we really want it to be as seamless and in the background as possible.

Justin: When you are interacting with a blockchain it’s making sense to you and making you feel confident in using the technology. We use what’s called a delegated proof of stake consensus algorithm and we have fifty-one delegates that run the network and users vote for delegates with their wallets and their wallets have ARK in them that have weight. It’s one ARK, one vote so it’s a very fair and balanced governing system. I bring that up to say that the delegates also deploy valuable community services that help ARK users and act as outreach programs to get new people involved in crypto and let them be exposed to the technology in a way that’s comfortable for them.

Justin: For example, one of the delegates, and this is just an example I’m not recommending that you vote for this specific delegate but, there’s a delegate called delegate fun. Delegate fun wants to build easy to play and fun cryptocurrency games. Just games you can play on your phone or your desktop, you can win ARK every day. The users like that service that Fun is providing and so they vote for Fun. If one of these delegates that is forging new ARK were to create a type of killer app then it would be very easy for users to get involved with that and experience that in a way that makes sense for them.

Speaker 2: As far as my thoughts on it I think we’re very early on and there’s a lot of companies that are focusing still on protocols, base level concepts of what blockchains will be in the future, wallets, and trading and exchanges. I don’t know that there’s a lot of people that are really targeting applications, I’m not saying there aren’t any, but I would say this probably the smaller part of the industry at this point and that’s one of the reasons you’re not seeing a lot of killer apps. I’d also say that DAPs, usability on DAPs, the biggest DAP has got five thousand users.

Paul: Yeah

Speaker 2: So the question is, is the problem with way DAPs are operating or is there a problem with the methodologies of which they’re trying to deploy that’s hampering usage? I think the usage issue comes down to latency and the fact that the apps are just not as clean and not as easy to use as something that’s centralized today. Obviously, long term goal is to fix that but that’s where we are right now.

Paul: What are some of the things we need to do in order to get there?

Speaker 2: Scalability definitely part of it. I also think that we kind of have to move away from the idea this religious concept that everything needs to be hosted on the blockchain. I think we can come back to that once infrastructure’s in place. I think that there’s a place for blockchain but hosting front end UI on a blockchain today I just don’t know how that works. I think that there’s pretty big issues with that. That’s my opinion on it.

Paul: The talk about DAPS and the biggest DAP only having five thousand users, I’d like to kind of put a little bit of perspective on the definition of a DAP. So a lot of people think of DAPS and the smart contracts being like an app you download that then accesses the blockchain and usually it’s a smart[inaudible 00:17:03] that does some fancy transactions on the blockchain.

Paul: Those fancy transaction if you simplify them could do nothing more than send and receive money. In essence, every single wallet is a DAP. It just does something very simple in that it just sends and receives money but that is interacting with a blockchain. Every DAP effectively is a wallet and then it has to talk to a blockchain and do some kind of operation and has keys that it manages. In that sense, if you think about the DAPS that have the most amount of users, the wallets have millions. So something more complicated than sending and receiving money doesn’t have as many users that’s kind of true in our regular world too.

Paul: In our regular world, sending and receiving money has the most amount of users and we have an exponentially smaller amount of users that do something more fancy with money such as other financial instruments such as trading which would be like a DEX or insurance. All those are much smaller user cases and that’s how I see DAPS. Playing their role in cryptocurrency is that first foundational layer is sending money, that’s what kind of wallet are, and everything on top of that is financial services on top of them. Now you asked a question of are we going to have something that’s not just payments, not just money. I think at it’s heart blockchains are meant to transfer value.

Paul: Whether you think value is money or it’s a signature in a document and proof of existence that’s just dependent on the sender receiver but in the end if you’re trying to build something that doesn’t transfer value, the blockchain is the wrong thing for you and I think ninety percent of the garbage projects we saw throughout last year and part of this year were doing that. Thinking that blockchains were the thing to fix all the problems in tech when they’re not. They’re meant to transfer value and do it without the middle man. I’m excited about what it can bring. I think payments is the first and foremost foundational piece that you need to have happen and then build financial infrastructure on top of that.

Paul: You mentioned UX issues that come about, one of those things that comes up in conversation, we were talking about a little earlier is kind of the Venmo experience. Like I want to build a punch in the name and send to somebody and right now you can’t do that in crypto. There is a product that’s still in stealth that you should hear about pretty soon within the next month that has the backing of five or six of the largest wallets and one of the biggest exchanges in the world that when they go live it will allow you to register basically name resolution between any different blockchain to send money to a name dot.

Justin: So one single name for all of the blockchain instead of this big long random number

Paul: Instead of the big long random number which is your public address you’ll be able to optionally if you choose register a or multiple public address for multiple different chains that you opt to receive money and register that under a name and a domain and every wallet may have a domain you can make a domain yourself.

Speaker 2: Like DNS.

Paul: It’s basically like a DNS except that it’s agnostic of DNS providers meaning there is no DNS provider, it does use a blockchain to host the names. As well, it will allow wallets and exchanges to transact with metadata that sits separate from that chain so I can say, “Hey, this was for dinner, kind of like the Venmo experience.” That gets encrypted and channeled through a separate chain then the ethereum you sent or the bitcoin that you sent. So we can really get this experience of both sending a request of payment, sending an actual payment and eliminate a lot of that complexity of public addresses and how do I know that’s you that I’m sending to. So from the viewpoint of interoperability I think this one is a pretty key piece. We’ve had these proposals in the past but this is one that’s finally gotten a least pre-adoption by a lot of the big companies.

Justin: Well that sound really interesting and you brought up protocol agnostic solutions, you brought up connecting all the blockchains or having access to a singular destination for multiple blockchains, make it easy. ARK has what is called the ACES protocol which stands for Ark Contract Execution Services. Actually quite apt because ARK recently sponsored the WCC Poker Tournament that I was in a couple days ago but I got eliminated along with Phil Hellmuth, I don’t want to talk about it. The ACES protocol allows you to use the ARK mainnet token to utilize other use cases on other chains without holding those tokens. ARK has been in the game for a while, more than a couple years which puts us in OG status for blockchains.

Paul: Well that’s interesting I haven’t heard of that. You said you’re able to utilize functionality from another blockchain with a non-native token?

Justin: That’s correct.

Paul: How does that work?

Justin: Well ACES is a community protocol it’s getting worked on for a while now and ACES has successfully established two way transfers between bitcoin, ethereum and litecoin with more on the way. For example, you can trigger an ethereum smart contract without every holding or using the ethereum token at all. What that means is when ARK was a baby chain they really had that vision of ‘we need to connect all the blockchains’, because why bother, it’s bad enough that we have like five hundred apps on our phone and we have to press this app to do this and like, these apps maybe kind of talking, don’t really, but you can sign in with Facebook on multiple apps but with blockchains it adds a completely new layer of complexity. Now you have to deal with a lot of tokens and endeavors like Edge are trying to help with that solution.

Justin: With ARK ACES protocol, let’s say for example, you want to upload a document to the Factum blockchain and you don’t want to deal with the Factum wallet or anything like that. You only need to upload one document, one time. It’s not like your using it every day so you can utilize the ACES protocol to communicate with what we call the ACES node which kind of acts like a business whose job it is to carry out tasks for you. You can tell the ACES node, here I have some ARK please upload this document for me, this is what it is, this is where it is. The ACES node charges you a fee for that and gets the job done. What’s beautiful is that it’s a free market situation so there’s no single point of failure and different endeavors can compete with each to benefit the overall end user.

Justin: Not only that, but if you had multiple blockchains that need to talk to each other then the fee structure and everything is independent so if there’s a lot of interoperability happening between ARK and blockchain A, the fees of interoperability between ARK and blockchain B won’t go up and that keep it fair for everybody.

Paul: Okay, interesting. A little bit of what you described there it’s real similar to the problem of getting off chain data into a chain.

Justin: Right

Paul: Yeah

Justin: Oracle, the oracle problem. In a way that’s like-

Ken: … Oracle. The Oracle problem, in a way that decentralized and secure, and so forth. And, there are some, currently some solutions that do that in a way that requires trust. What are some of the things that we need to do? Are any of you guys working on this idea that there’s data outside of the block chain that is important data to the block chain?

Justin: Well, it’s interesting that you ask. I’ll just be brief.

Ken: Okay.

Justin: ARK is very extensible, and we have well over a dozen SDK’s and different programming languages including C and C + + that you can utilize in to interact with ARK. So, if you have a node, and you’re running a delegate node, it doesn’t have to be a forging delegate node, but you can plug things in on your block chain that you’re deploying on your own, and communicate with outside services. Now, whether or not you need a network to validate the authenticity of that data, and have multiple sources confirming the same data, to make sure that it’s authentic, that is up to you when you’re deploying that. But, ARK has a lot of inputs and outputs, ports, plug-ins, it’s a very modular structure, and we’re releasing a new Core, CORE v2 we call it, within in the next coming weeks, that will give developers a lot more power and the network will be a lot more stable because we’re redesigning all the code from scratch.

Paul: Cool. So, with respect to interfacing with the real world, I’m glad you brought that up, Ken. So we talk a lot about block chain interoperability, and people forget … I’m surprised how many people I talk to that don’t realize that a block chain cannot talk outside of it’s own chain. It can’t read data from outside of it’s own chain, and it can’t write data to outside of the chain. So, that is actually one of the challenges in trying to interoperate two block chains, is that they have to communicate through the regular internet. So, how-

Ken: Or some other mechanism, right?

Paul: What’s that?

Ken: Or some other mechanism. It might be through, you know, it might be you and I having a conversation, right.

Paul: True, but eventually we have to write that to a block chain. A block chain does operate on the internet. But, that is one thing that, fundamentally, I think many projects don’t even realize. They say that I’m gonna write a block chain. It’s gonna do this. It’s gonna do that. It’s gonna read these documents. I’m like, “Where are those?” Oh, they’re on my server at Amazon. Do you know it can’t actually get to those. Right? And then, after it has access to them, then it’s gonna make these payments. I go, “What, Crypto?” No, like Visa, MasterCard. But, do you know, it can’t access that either. And so, people are forgetting the limitations of a block chain, and one of those is it simply cannot access anything outside of it’s own chain.

Paul: So, what do we do to try to alleviate that? We have to build a connector. There has to be someone, something, that says, “Oh, I see this data on the chain, I’m gonna do something outside the chain.” Whatever that is. Whether that’s make a Visa, MasterCard meme, write a document, anything, or vice versa, I see something in the real world, and I’m gonna put that into the block chain for a smart contract to process. That’s one of the biggest reasons why we have the concept of what you’d mention is oracles. And if you look at any, what I call decent to good, DAP project, the number one use of a token is specifically to build an oracle for that DAP.

Paul: So, I use an example of a well standing, one of the first DAP projects on the market, which was Augur. And they have a token, but what exactly is that token doing? It is building up interoperability between the real world and the block chain. By building a token, they give people the power to stake the truth. They have people now that own that token, say, okay, I’m gonna stake this, and here’s what the truth is. I believe so and so won the Superbowl, and if a lot of people, more than 51% of the people with tokens, say the same thing, then I am both rewarded, but, I also don’t lose money. If I say the wrong thing, and I’m in the minority of that group, then I lose money. It’s equivalent to mining. So, it’s almost like every single one of these DAP’s has a mini mining protocol built into it.

Paul: And, that’s actually the biggest use of these tokens, because you can’t do that with the main coin, you can’t do that with Ethereum and have people stake Ethereum. The reason being is that, the reason why you don’t lie is because you have tokens and you don’t want them to tank. If I staked an Augur rep token, and I have a whole bunch of them, so much so that I can influence the market, and make an incorrect call. Like, I’m gonna say that Hillary won the election, even though she didn’t, because I have so much of this coin that I can do that. Well, what happens to the value of the coin that I have a lot of? I’ll tank it. No one’s gonna want to use that network.

Paul: And so, this effectively is what ties the real world to the block chain, is the mechanism by which people, many ideally, many people, anyone that want’s to participate, buys and stakes these coins. It is, kind of, a proof of stake, built right into a DAP. So, this is one of the keyest, keyest, most key pieces of interoperability, and I think that’s what people should be looking for in some of these DAP projects versus one that just says, “I’m the one that writes the data of the block chain.” “My company, or my 10 people write the data of a block chain.”

Paul: So, trying to achieve some of that distributed nature in determining [crosstalk 00:29:25].

Ken: Well, that’s what makes a block chain work. I mean, it really almost can’t work without some sort of a value token. Right? And so, what you’re describing as extending that into data coming in from the outside world.

Paul: Correct. Exactly. I mean, that’s kind of what miners are effectively doing is, the data from the outside world is, yes, does this person really have the ability to write this transaction, and miners are staking as well. What they’re staking is electricity. They’re staking electricity and saying, “Yes, these transactions actually are valid.” And, if they’re wrong, they lose money. Same thing in a DAP. People stake tokens and say that this is the truth.

Ken: So, David, is Latnum, or Latium, I’m sorry, are you guys doing anything around interoperability?

David: Well, we’re really not at this point. We’re more of a mass adoption platform. I mean, we’re a multi-currency wallet. That’s about as close as we get. I’m actually very interested in what Paul’s doing and having conversations about how we can integrate those platforms together. Because, I definitely see the value of putting everything on a chain. I have concerns about where we are with scalability, and maturity as far as the block chain goes itself. We’re growing at a rate of a thousand to three thousand users a day. I don’t want to be in a situation where I can’t operate because of scale issues.

Ken: And, we’ve already seen that happen.

David: And, it will happen again.

Ken: We had it happy because of kitties.

David: Exactly.

Paul: A cat.

David: [crosstalk 00:30:59] and a coin. Plenty of times its happened.

Ken: Okay. Well, so we’ve got a couple minutes left. So, I just wanted to give everybody a minute if you guys wanna take a minute to do a closing argument. Justin you want to start?

Justin: So, closing argument, I argue that block chains are great. I don’t think that can be argued. But, ARK has a lot of exciting things going on in the future, near future, two, four. We’re looking at, of course, the ARK v2 code base that I mentioned earlier, and it may be sometime within the next few weeks to the end of the year that that will be ready. And, also, the white paper will be revamped to support our new features and powers. And, I also, in response to David, gave a talk at the Seattle Northwest Block Chain Conference about mass adoption. That went really well, and you can watch that on our YouTube channel. And, I really like Paul and David’s comments today. I’m really appreciative to be here, and thank you so much for having me on.

Ken: Yeah. Thanks for being here.

David: Closing argument, I would say that, one of the challenges in Cryptography technology as a whole, is that I think a lot of people in cryptography, even pre-crypto currency, are pretty strong purist. They literally try to find the absolutes and try to find the perfect solution. One of the biggest reasons why PGP, which was in an encrypted email platform, never got mass adoption is because they all just argued and bickered about, well, how do we transmit key and know that it’s yours, blah, blah, blah, as opposed to realizing what’s good enough. And so, in the same sense with a lot of some of the interoperability projects and the Dex’s, some projects are gonna get criticized because, well, maybe this one, even though it doesn’t hold any money, and transacts on a block chain to move money between one block chain and another, they may require some aspect of KYC, or an account, or what not.

David: But, they may have at least achieved a goal. And so, the thing to leave with, and understanding some of these tools, they may be criticized because they’re not absolutely perfect. But, realize where the benefit is, in what they’ve built versus what we currently have today in some of the more very, very centralized solutions, and appreciate it for that, and use what they’re building for a lot of the goals that they have achieved. ‘Cause I think that too many projects that should see the light of day, get criticized by the purist and maximalist.

Ken: Well, and anything we build today, we can change tomorrow, too.

David: Absolutely.

Ken: As we learn more.

Paul: Yeah, I would say that as an industry, totally agree there’s definitely the purist mentality, and I think one of the reasons that adoption is not growing at the rate it could is because of that. To me, you have a clear pendulum of security and convenience, and we live in a society that’s very, very far to the right on that, as far as leaning towards convenience. Block chains very much leaning security. So, I think we have to bridge that gap between those two things. And, in order for that to work, it’s gonna take some crossover from purist because there’s going to be a level of people that will never, ever use something that’s complex. I mean, most people don’t realize, you have 10% of the United States is under an 82 IQ. They can’t even get into the Army.

Paul: So, we’re asking them to figure out how to work with hashes and strings and hundred gigabyte files, I mean, it’s too much to ask.

Ken: Okay. Well, thank you everyone. I appreciate you guys were here. We’re out of time. And, thanks to Justin, and Paul, and David for joining me.

Paul: You’re very welcome.

Justin: Thank you.

David: Thanks for having us.

Justin: Alright. That’s gonna do it for this episode of the ARK Crypto podcast. Hope you enjoyed it. Tune in next week for podcast episode #14. 

Justin: You can subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, Sound Cloud, Stitcher, Spotify, and Cast Box. You can also check out our website at, where you can stream direct and read transcripts of all of our episodes.

Justin: Not only that, but you can follow us on Twitter, and stream directly inside of our Tweets. How cool is that?

Justin: We’ll see you next time.

Episode 013 – Travis Walker On The Cast Talking WCC Poker Tournament Oct 31, Ark v2 & 2.1, Aces & More

The thirteenth episode of the ARK Crypto Podcast is here! Travis and I shoot the breeze in Las Vegas at the World Crypto Con show at Aria Casino Resort. You’ll hear all the details on what went down at the WCC Poker Tournament at the Aria PokerGO Studio, hosted by poker legend Phil Hellmuth with audio inside the podcast! The clips are courtesy of tech and design studio Nice Spaceship (, who was gracious enough to provide the files. Travis and I also take another dip into ARK v2 in a live interview second to Matthew DC’s you heard in the seventh episode.

For more episodes & insight into all things ARK, follow us on facebooktwitterinstagram or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. We are currently live on SoundcloudiTunesStitcherGoogle Play Music, and Spotify. As always, thanks for listening!

This episode is hosted by Justin Renken.

Cheers and Enjoy!


Justin Renken: Hello, Cryptoland. I’m Justin. It’s Friday, and this is the ARK Crypto Podcast, episode 13. Wow. All I can say is wow. What an ARK adventure to be had this year at the World Crypto Con 2018 in Las Vegas at the ARIA Casino Resort. The three-day conference was jam-packed with speakers, exhibits, and crypto personalities like Brock Pierce and Charlie Lee. This year also marks the first crypto buy-in live poker tournament at a major casino. The WCC Poker Tournament at the PokerGO Studio at ARIA. The host of this iconic inaugural tournament was poker legend Phil Hellmuth, and the tournament also benefited charity. You’ll hear Phil’s commentary on the podcast today. The audio clips you’ll hear today are graciously provided by tech and design firm, Nice Spaceship, who had a big hand in making World Crypto Con exciting and memorable. I’d like to give a special thanks to Nice Spaceship, because I saw their team throughout the conference, and I saw nothing but professionalism and courtesy, so again, thank you very much for these clips.

Justin Renken: Well, ARK CMO, Travis Walker, and I, both hit the show and participated in that tournament, and we’ve got all the juicy details today with Travis here on the cast. So yeah, we’re gonna talk poker, but we’re also gonna talk ARK V2 with the pending hardcore protocol update happening any day now throughout this quarter. Travis and I are also going to go into some additional details that go beyond the interview that I had with Matt in episode seven. That’s all right here on the ARK Crypto Podcast.

Justin Renken: Well, let’s get started right away with the Las Vegas interview that I had with Travis Walker. Enjoy.

Justin Renken: Now, I’m finally in Las Vegas for realsies, and we just wrapped up the World Crypto Con poker tournament at ARIA PokerGO Studio with Phil Hellmuth. I’m here with Travis Walker, of course. How’s it going, Travis?

Travis Walker: It’s going good. Very good.

Justin Renken: I was just happy to be in the room. It was really exciting because there was all these cameras and there’s all these lights. It’s really professional. It’s like walking into a news broadcast studio, or the Daily Show set or something. I mean, it was really well put together.

Travis Walker: That’s kinda overwhelming.

Justin Renken: Yeah. Speaking of overwhelming, have you ever played poker tournaments before?

Travis Walker: Not like this. I’ve played small-time with friends at a tiny casino before, but nothing on this scale before.

Justin Renken: Yeah, me neither. This is my second one. I was here early AF because I was so excited. I was probably the first person that didn’t work there, and everyone there is really nice. I met Grant who was in control of the media stuff, I think, and he was really helpful. He actually provided us with some audio, but first, I just wanna say thank you, Travis, so much, because you know, I do love poker a lot. I have other hobbies, too, besides poker, but what I found was as soon as I got involved with block chains, and ARK specifically, I’ve been able to use all my talents and skills at once. All the hobbies that I’ve had have all kind of started to bleed into what I’m doing with ARK. It makes me feel like I’m belonging in block chain space and with ARK. I used to think that it was all coding and programming, and you know.

Travis Walker: Make it, “I’m not a developer, what am I gonna do?”

Justin Renken: Exactly. Yeah, and I felt like with ARK it was okay to not be a developer, and there’s lots of ways to help. So, I just feel really blessed to be in here and … Two years ago, I was watching YouTube videos of Phil Hellmuth on YouTube. Now, I’m playing poker next to Phil Hellmuth, but all because of block chains. So, Travis, I just wanna say thank you so much for all these opportunities, and every day is an adventure here at ARK.

Travis Walker: That’s awesome. I’m glad to hear you’re enjoying your time.

Justin Renken: Let’s talk about the studio, how it was set up. So, we had nine tables, and there were 81 participants in the tournament. So, with nine tables, that means that technically, the best person at each table would get a spot at the final table. I know it doesn’t exactly work that way, but when you look at it on paper, that’s pretty much what it is. So, if you’re the table leader at your table, then you make it to the final table. Now, the way that poker tournaments are set up, you’ll have buy-in. So, you put in some money, in this case, some bitcoin. This was the first time that the PokerGO Studio accepted bitcoin for a tournament, so that was a nice first that we learned from the organizers.

Justin Renken: But what you’ll do is, you’ll put in the buy-in, then you’ll get chips. Now, your chips are just points. They don’t represent $1. It’s just points, so Travis and I got 10,000 in chips to start. You’ll try to knock out other players and all that. Now, if you get knocked out, you don’t get to cash out. It’s not like a casino where you walk up and say, “Oh, I only have this much left. I want my money now.” No, you gotta get to the final table, and you got to get what’s called in the money, in the bubble, where all the remaining players get some kind of money. The prize pool also included a donation to a charity, courtesy of the whole event. Phil Hellmuth is very charitable and PokerGO Studio, and PokerGO also has an app.

Justin Renken: So, let’s get into the meat because this tournament lasted from about 12 o’clock to maybe 5 o’clock, was it, Travis?

Travis Walker: A little after five, I think, yeah.

Justin Renken: A little after five, huh? I was, first off, crushing it on the small pot, okay? Making some bluffs, seven-deuce off, which is, as we know, the worst hand you can possibly get in poker. Isn’t that right, Travis?

Travis Walker: It’s … Well, close, I guess. Statistically, yes.

Justin Renken: Statistically, yes. So, seven-deuce offsuit. Now, when I got this hand I was like, “You know what? I’m here. I’m in Las Vegas. I’m at the World Crypto Con Poker Tournament. I’m playing with Phil Hellmuth, and I’m playing with CMO, Travis Walker, and our logo’s on the table, and I’m gonna bluff everybody with this hand.” The worst hand possible that nothing good could ever possibly come from this hand, I raise it up, raise up 3X, the flop came down, I threw out a c-bet, and I got two other players to fold. Then, I threw down the seven-deuce, and then Phil was like, “You bluffed with a seven-deuce?” I was like, “Had to do it once. Had to do it once.”

Justin Renken: So, it was lots of fun. Good times. But, eventually, we got to a hand where … This was a tricky one. So, Travis was out, sitting out this hand, and there was Phil and myself, and there was another player who had just recently shown up to the final table, who is now sitting next to Travis.

Travis Walker: Dan O’Brien, I believe.

Justin Renken: Dan O’Brien.

Travis Walker: Professional.

Justin Renken: He’s a pro.

Travis Walker: Yeah.

Justin Renken: Okay, got it. So, Dan O’Brien was at the table, and we had a raised three-way pot, pre-flop. When the flop came down, it was a queen-high board. Very dry board. What that means is there’s not two hearts, there’s not two spades, and there’s not two cards next to each other that maybe could come up with straights. That’s what dry means. It basically means if you have a queen, you’re doing pretty good. So, I did have a queen and I had a king, as well, so I had a top pair with a good over card. There was some betting that happened, there was some calling that happened, blah, blah, blah.

Justin Renken: We move on to the turn. So, the turn was a king. This put me at top two pair. Now, top two pair is a very good hand, especially on the turn, because there aren’t many cards that can mess you up. And unless they have a better hand than you already, you’re pretty good to go. Even if they have a flush already, you have outs to get a full house and beat their flush. So, what I saw was I saw Phil go all-in. He was like, “I am all-in.” This was the first time that he went all-in in the tournament, so kind of intimidating. It came over to me, and of course, I seize the opportunity with Phil and the hand being all-in, and with the cameras everywhere, I said a little prologue. Do you remember what I said, Travis?

Travis Walker: Not verbatim.

Justin Renken: Okay. So, what I said was … I was thinking, looking, thinking. Then, I said, “You know what? ARK is a very ambitious project with a killer community and a bright future, and so I’m all-in.” Then, I stood up and I shoved all my chips in.

Travis Walker: This is literally … He did actually say all of this out loud. This really did happen.

Justin Renken: Believe it. Believe it. Then, Dan … I did this, of course, to get Dan out, because I don’t necessarily wanna go all-in against two players, but I don’t mind doing it. Having top two pair is pretty good. So, Dan was thinking and thinking and thinking, and I told him, “Listen Dan, if you go all-in or fold, either way, is cool with me. I don’t mind.” And he said, “Thank you.” And I said, “No problem.” So, let’s go to the audio, and let’s go to Phil Hellmuth commentating on this hand.

Phil Hellmuth: Alright, let’s take a look. I’m all-in, and so is Dan O’Brien, and so is Justin. Justin, what do you have, Justin?

Justin Renken: I have top two pair.

Phil Hellmuth: Top two pair? That’s good. I have kings and eights. Yeah. And Dan has a set of deuces, what’s going on here? The board is king … hold on. The board is king, queen, eight-deuce. King, queen, eight-deuce. Justin has kings and queens. I have kings and eights. Dan O’Brien has a set of deuces. Dan, I [inaudible 00:09:52] two eights. You have everybody almost dead here. There’s one king, one queen, and two eights. Four outs.

Justin Renken: I’ve got outs too!

Phil Hellmuth: The board is king, queen, eight-deuce. Kings and eights for me, and I’m in third fucking place. Come on, man. Kings and queens for Justin, and a set for Dan O’Brien, but I have two outs.

Justin Renken: This video can only go so long!

Phil Hellmuth: Give us the last card.

Speaker 1: [inaudible 00:10:22] Boom!

Phil Hellmuth: And Dan O’Brien wins again, and takes the chip lead. He busts me. Nice hand, Dan. He busts Justin, and he takes the chip lead with over 40,000 in chips. Oh, and he got my bounty. Dan, now I have to do my day job.

Speaker 2: I’ll take the buy-in ’cause I’ve got to now.

Speaker 3: Thank you.

Phil Hellmuth: Dan O’Brien smashing.

Speaker 2: You get to control the [inaudible 00:10:54]. That’s your job.

Phil Hellmuth: Damn it! I mean, nice hand.

Justin Renken: That hand was crazy, right? But it was worth it, and I had a lot of fun. So, let’s talk about Travis’s hand. After I got eliminated, I walked around the show, and I talked with a lot of interesting people who already knew about what ARK was, which was really nice because they were like, “Hey, ARK! Cool.” And I was like, “Yeah!” So I had lot of conversations with people who are considering using block chain technology. They’re like “Oh, what should I do? How can I use it easily?” And it was a lot of opportunities for me to talk to people about using ARK, and [inaudible 00:11:35] and block chains. The fact that it’s really easy, and you don’t have to know everything about programming to do it.

Justin Renken: When I was doing that, Travis was dominating, and he was still at the final table this entire time, okay? All the lights are on him, there’s cameras everywhere. Final table. Travis is chilling with his hat, and his shirt. [inaudible 00:11:54] too? Yeah. And just slowly stacking up, okay, slowly stacking up. So we’re cheering for him in the background. I’m like, “Yes! Okay, ARK is still in this.” So Travis, are there any interesting hands that you recall after I left, and before we get to your hand?

Travis Walker: I don’t know. There’s a lot of interesting hands that I actually wasn’t even in. I just kind of … I slow rolled quite a few times. I was more involved in the experience at that point in time. When I’d start paying attention, I would take a few hands, and then I’d sit back for a while. I honestly don’t even remember the exact way I got knocked out. At that point in time, there’s 150 people standing around me, and I just pushed back and stood up, and I was like, “Ahhh, this is not good.”

Justin Renken: Oh, that’s rough, but exciting. And you know, Travis, we got two pieces of good news for you because you told me how it went down, and I remember that.

Travis Walker: Yeah.

Justin Renken: And we got the audio from Phil.

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty Nguyen is all in, and called-

Phil Hellmuth: Nguyen is all in. And called. Scotty Nguyen. Flip it up Scotty!

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty with the ace, eight of spades, against queen, jack of spades.

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty! We’re almost 60% here, Scotty.

Phil Hellmuth: 58% for Scotty Nguyen. Give us a flop.

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty Nguyen with ace, eight of spades, his opponent with queen, jack of spades.

Phil Hellmuth: Nine, ten, six. It’s a good flop for the queen, jack.

Phil Hellmuth: This gentleman needs a king. There’s four kings.

Phil Hellmuth: A queen! There’s three queens.

Phil Hellmuth: A jack. There’s three of those.

Phil Hellmuth: That’s ten outs. But wait! Also an eight. There’s three of those.

Phil Hellmuth: 13 outs. You’re now even money.

Phil Hellmuth: Give us a card.

Phil Hellmuth: Five of clubs. It’s a safe card. With one to come, we already know …

Phil Hellmuth: You have 13 outs.

Phil Hellmuth: Four kings, three jacks, three queens, and three eights.

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty Nguyen has 31 outs.

Phil Hellmuth: Last card.

Phil Hellmuth: It’s seven and Scotty Nguyen makes a straight. Not that he needed it.

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty! B-b-b, B-baby!

Scotty Nguyen: Ho! Yeah baby! You know where my heart is.

Scotty Nguyen: Let me pick it up from the floor.

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty’s heart was pumping, baby!

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty!

Scotty Nguyen: There is nothing [inaudible 00:14:34] baby. You know?

Phil Hellmuth: Scotty Nguyen.

Travis Walker: Oh, I had fun. I never thought I’d be sitting here saying “Hey, I just played a poker tournament and Scotty Nguyen knocked me out”. I never … It’s not something you really think you’re gonna do in the future.

Justin Renken: Just in general.

Travis Walker: Yeah. And in general.

Justin Renken: Yeah, I know, it’s a bit surreal. And this is only day one, Travis. I mean, we still have adventures ahead, you know. We’ve got the event space, lots of exhibitors going on here at World Crypto Con. And on Friday I’m gonna be a part of the interoperability panel, which is four people talking about making blockchains, talk together and to each other.

Justin Renken: What am I gonna say? Well, I’m gonna talk about ACES, because that’s what’s up!

Justin Renken: So, Travis, let’s get into some ARK V2 stuff. Is that cool with you?

Travis Walker: That sounds great.

Justin Renken: Nice.

Justin Renken: Did you have a chance to listen to episode seven with my interview with Matt at all?

Travis Walker: You’re gonna be mad.

Justin Renken: Oh, don’t even.

Justin Renken: Tell me about this ARK V2 Testathon. Tell me how it works and what it’s doing to advance the ARK V2 roll out.

Travis Walker: The new week long Testathon, we’re giving everyone a chance to finalize. Like, if you see something, if you wanna jump in and test something, we’ve upped our bounties to anyone that does a PR of any kind will get, I believe it’s like, 50 dollars worth of ARK.

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: At this point in time. If you provide a solution for that PR it goes up in stages after that, to a hundred or 200 dollars per … If you find a security vulnerability, or anything like that, contact us, we have a whole different bounty structure for that.

Justin Renken: Okay, so the security issue bounties are different from the published bounties. Is that right?

Travis Walker: Correct. They’re completely separate. We do that one for one. You’ll work with our devs and we will compensate you healthily.

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: A great thing about all this, too, is all of our current community devs that are working will also get a chance for … anything they do with this, they’ll get these increased bonuses. But everything will also go towards their GitHub bounty programs that run monthly.

Travis Walker: So, on top of all the money they’re gonna get for this one week, they could potentially get even more for their upcoming month when they get their bounty program.

Justin Renken: Nice. And you know, I do also like that ARK is very focused on including as much of the community as possible in development, and helping develop the ARK products, like the ARK Wallets, the Explorer, and the Core codebase. And a lot of the community developers that contribute on our GitHub and get bounties, some of them actually end up on the team. Isn’t that right, Travis?

Travis Walker: Yeah. We’re very focused on anyone that already knows the code, and has been contributing, and they’re looking for work already, why not vet them to a position within ARK?

Justin Renken: It’s also nice that people who discover the projects, no matter what their skillset, they can find ways to get involved, help, and develop a stronger affinity for ARK, which is great.

Justin Renken: And we’ve also got the hard fork which is coming up after the testing is fully complete. So, how does a hard fork work in ARK, and is it something that’s nice and smooth and easy? How does it affect users?

Travis Walker: The only way a hard fork in ARK actually affects the users is they can’t trade it at that point in time during the hard fork.

Justin Renken: Okay, so, during the actual protocol upgrade they can’t trade it?

Travis Walker: Yes. It won’t … we’ll be shutting down exchange wallets, so you won’t be able to trade any ARK at that point in time. Well, send it to and from.

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: You’ll be able to probably still trade on the …

Justin Renken: The market.

Travis Walker: On the exchange itself.

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: But once it’s … if you wanted to broadcast a transaction of any kind, it will not happen at that point in time. That’s the only thing that actually affects the end-user.

Justin Renken: So it seems pretty smooth for the end-users, huh. I mean, maybe they might have to update their wallets, right, to a new version?

Travis Walker: Yes. That, yeah. And that’s already smooth with ARK. I mean, it pops up in the wallet if there’s a new version available.

Justin Renken: Wow.

Travis Walker: And in mobile world it’s usually, like, I know iOS does automatically update in the background. Google Play usually does, sometimes you just have to open the wallet for it to give you something in the background that says “Updating”.

Justin Renken: Okay. Well that sounds really convenient, actually.

Travis Walker: Yeah. The only people that are actually really affected that have to be right there on the spot, through the whole process, are the delegates, or any node operators, such as exchanges. They’re the ones that are actually doing the protocol upgrade in the background while you’re just standing by.

Justin Renken: Got it. Okay. I understand. And so, what would happen if not all the delegates were to upgrade, but most of them did? How would the blockchain handle that case?

Travis Walker: It would continue on without them.

Justin Renken: Okay. Got it.

Travis Walker: Until they either upgrade it or continue on their old fork.

Justin Renken: So, because of the Delegated Proof of Stake system, the delegates accrue votes from the users who assign ARK to the delegate wallets, and their votes have weight to get them into the top 51 slots where they forge new ARK.

Justin Renken: So, if some delegates, maybe they didn’t get the memo, or they were just being weird and they didn’t want to update, but they were still staying in those top slots with the top votes, what would happen? Would they just miss every block because there’s no node anymore?

Travis Walker: Once that consensus is formed between delegates, the chain starts, and if they are upgrading and they take their time, or whatever, they’re just gonna be missing blocks as things happen.

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: And most delegates have those failovers where they get messaged or they’ll get emailed or they get pinged on their phone that they’re missing blocks.

Justin Renken: Sure.

Travis Walker: So the majority of time, unless someone’s really in a deep slumber, or completely off the grid, usually everyone upgrades very fast.

Justin Renken: Okay. After that, the AIP11 2.1 situation will be going on. After the MainNet is live for ARK V2. So, what are the key things in AIP11? ‘Cause I know that some people in the ARK community, and probably outside as well, have some misconceptions about what is gonna be the ARK V2 hard fork. Like, the ARK V2 hard fork is gonna show up on day x. People might have a misunderstanding about what features and stuff are happening on that day, and then what additional features and stuff are happening on 2.1 day.

Justin Renken: Can you confirm those differences on that?

Travis Walker: There’s gonna be more than one of those, actually. It’ll be a 2.2 after that as well.

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: The V2 upgrade is just the core itself. Complete swap to the new core. It also includes the dynamic fee structure and other small things.

Justin Renken: Of course.

Travis Walker: But …

Justin Renken: I wouldn’t call dynamic fees that small, Travis, I mean, it’s the first Delegated Proof of Stake to do it …

Travis Walker: Yes.

Justin Renken: And, I guess, in terms of the fees being small, you’d be right!

Travis Walker: Fair enough!

Travis Walker: But the V2 itself is going to be … it’s going to enable different transactions on the MainNet itself.

Justin Renken: So new transaction types. I’ve heard this phrase a lot, “New transaction types”.

Travis Walker: Yes.

Justin Renken: So, like, what kind of transaction types?

Travis Walker: Such as, I believe multi-payments is in that one.

Justin Renken: Oh, okay, right. So you could pay a bunch of people with one transaction. Right?

Travis Walker: Yeah. Well, it would be in one block. So you could send, theoretically, it’s not 100% tested yet …

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: But theoretically I think you could send over 2000 transactions at once, but then times that by however many transactions are accepted in the block. So if there are 150 transactions per block at that point in time …

Justin Renken: Yeah.

Travis Walker: Each transaction can be over 2000 transactions in one.

Justin Renken: Wow. So this sounds like it’ll come in really handy to pay voters. Is that right?

Travis Walker: Correct. Yes. It will eliminate a lot of the bloat from …

Justin Renken: From the actual voting situation.

Travis Walker: [crosstalk 00:22:48] Massive … from the massive amount of voters that sometimes delegates wanna pay out all at the same time. If you’re paying thousands and thousands of people out at the same time, you kinda slow the network down a little bit. But this multi-payments will really, really reduce that.

Justin Renken: It sounds like a good deal. So let’s go into a little bit more about these new transaction types. Now, I’ve also heard of this “Timelocks” or “Timelocking” transaction type. Can you go into a little bit more on that?

Travis Walker: Not from a development standpoint, but as a spectator in the background, I can.

Justin Renken: Okay.

Travis Walker: It’s going to, essentially, enable atomic swaps between our chains.

Justin Renken: Okay. That sounds like a decentralized SmartBridge to me.

Travis Walker: Sure?

Justin Renken: Okay. So, do you remember guys, there were some weeks ago, when I was talking about some whispers that I heard in various ARK communities about a decentralized SmartBridge? Now, in order to understand that aspect of it, we need to talk about ACES, which is a really great project run by the community, and ACES is a node system that allows for exchange of value and instructions between ARK blockchains and other [inaudible 00:24:02] chains. Chains like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, and others.

Justin Renken: So the interesting thing about ACES is that the structure of ACES kind of puts it as the noderunners operating a business where their business is to exchange value or instructions between blockchains, and they can charge a fee as they need to. A flat fee or a percentage, or both. And then perform that service.

Justin Renken: So the way that it works is that if you have a lot of ACES nodes that are providing the same service between two different chains, it creates a lot of options for the end-user and the free market allows a competitive space that benefits the users. Not only that, but if you have a lot of ACES nodes servicing between blockchain A and B, and then you have some other ACES nodes servicing between blockchain A and C, if blockchain A and B is very popular and there’s a lot of interoperability going, then those fees in that environment might be boosted up a little bit where there’s a little bit more fees for the users because there’s just more demand. And that makes sense.

Justin Renken: But the users who are interoperating between blockchain A and C will not see those increases in fees. So it acts as a balancing act there where you’re not gonna be unfairly charged extra fees just because there’s a certain interoperability happening between two random chains that you don’t even care about.

Justin Renken: So this is one of the beauties of ACES. Now, the interesting thing about it is that it’s not entirely trustless, but it is considered decentralized in that there is no single point of failure.

Travis Walker: It’s a workaround, I would guess I would call it.

Justin Renken: Yeah.

Travis Walker: But you’re still with a third party, per se.

Justin Renken: Yeah. It’s kind of like this, guys. It’s kind of like, you know how you’re in your house and you have your internet provider, right? And the cable company has a monopoly on your area, and so you’re kind of like at their mercy. But with ACES it’s kind of like wireless carrier, so we’re like …

Justin Renken: But with Aces, it’s kind of like wireless carriers. Where, like, if you don’t like your wireless carrier. then you can just switch to another one. And they know that and because of that, they want to give you better service. So it’s kind of like that, like it’s not entirely trustless but there’s no single point of failure and it creates a marketplace that users can benefit from.

Justin Renken: So we say that to move into this where I said that there were talks in various Ark communities of decentralized smart bridge. What that is, is it’s essentially time-locked transactions between two chains that will allow the transfer of value-

Travis Walker: Let’s go back to the Aces themselves though because this is not going to eliminate Aces by any means because it’s still a very valuable service. Even like for somebody wants to run a private chain and doesn’t need to upgrade to V2. They can still use Aces for their current services if they want to spin up a second block chain internally like one for … they want to run an inventory chain and they wanted to run-

Justin Renken: Rewards program.

Travis Walker: Their current rewards program and whatever and they want the two to talk to each other, they can still use the Aces right now as is and that’s pretty big just for the private business.

Justin Renken: Yeah, absolutely. It definitely is and not only that but the Aces team is working on some new use cases for Aces besides just sending coins over here and sending coins over there. They’re working on some new marketplace ideas and some new ways to interact with different block chains in terms of like why you’re interacting with other block chains. You can check that out at their website which is

Justin Renken: Okay, so Travis, also on the blog, we have a recent article about the Hack-A-Thon season being back upon us. I’m really exited about that because that is the opportunity to expose our code base, our culture, and our solutions and ideas to the new squad. The programmers and developers who will dominating this industry in only a few short years.

Justin Renken: So Travis, how’s it going with the partnership with Major League Hacking? I know you’re the frontman on that and what’s been going on with the Hack-A-Thon situation?

Travis Walker: The partnership with MLH is building a workshop. Essentially it’s going to be a entire class project for everyone to get into block chain. Well, we’re going to make it so they have to all run a node on a network based on Ark and work with the transaction types to run a small business. This is going to be a 90 minute class and it’s going to be crash course into block chain right of bat and then it’s going to be a crash course into, “Okay, now build something on Ark.” We’re working on it right now. We should have something in early to mid-November as to start pushing it out to Hack-A-Thons.

Justin Renken: Awesome. So, I’ve been thinking about starting up a … some would call it a meet up but I would call it a workshop but it’s just not technical at all. It’s more like a workshop for users to use the wallets, learn about crypto, learn about block chains. Then, of course, learn about Ark, have some presentations and maybe have some quizzes with Ark prizes. I’ve wanted to start something up like this in LA because there’s just so many people in LA and it just makes sense that some of them would be interested to learn about Ark. Maybe get some sponsorships from some delegates who want to give away from Ark, give away some prizes for things like quizzes and stuff. This is the first time I’m kind of talking about it. It’s a bit of an exclusive too.

Travis Walker: There’s … you can also get … you probably can get a delegate or two to actually show up to help out.

Justin Renken: You know, that’s a really good point. That’s a really good point. I just met with Cali Delegate a few months ago. Cali Delegate is a team and I met up with Zarvoc, and Zarvoc and I had some brats, some beers, and talked about Ark. He showed me the commander. It was really cool. So I think that maybe I should reach out to him and see if we can get something going. I mean, it might not be right away, like things are always very busy. We’ll see how fast it takes to make this happen but it’s something that I’m very interested in.

Justin Renken: So Travis, I did want to tell you that I am so appreciative of being here in Vegas with you at the show. I’m always going to remember this experience so thank you very much, Travis. And thank you for coming on the cast with me.

Travis Walker: I’m glad you enjoyed it. And actually hope I get to … get a little more exposure on this podcast in the future too.

Justin Renken: Yeah. I’d love that.

Justin Renken: All right, that’s going to do it for this episode of the Ark Crypto podcast. Tune in next week for audio from my discussion on the panel for interoperability, our website, the, is really stepping up its game with easily streamable episodes and written transcripts as well. Coming soon.

Justin Renken: You can also subscribe directly to our podcast on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Sound Cloud, Spotify and Cast Box. Don’t forget to follow us on Twitter, @Ark_Podcast.

Justin Renken: Well, hey, you made it this far. Would you like to hear some bonus content? Well here’s a really exciting poker hand from the tournament featuring poker pro and crypto YouTuber Doug Polk, followed by The Winning Hand as we warp ahead to the end of the tournament featuring poker pro Dan O’Brien and crypto Twitter guy Jeremy @jebus911. We’ll see you next time.was

Phil Hellmuth: What? I just want win against Johnny Chan. Oh my God. Doug is smashing his boy Scottie over here. No mercy at the poker table.

Phil Hellmuth: People are paying thousands of dollars for seats just to be in this room.

Speaker 4: Just to be in this room.

Phil Hellmuth: Demon Girl. This is a very hot room.

Speaker 4: We’re in the presence of greatness.

Phil Hellmuth: Hot room.

Speaker 4: Much greatness.

Phil Hellmuth: Two tables left. Dan O’Brien professional poker player’s in there. Doug Polk, professional poker player. Scotty Nguyen. Three pros at this table.

Phil Hellmuth: What?

Speaker 4: That whole table … Everyone.

Phil Hellmuth: Doug Polk is all in up here at the feature table. Gather around if you want. Gather around if you want. He’s been called and Doug is in trouble.

Speaker 5: He’s in trouble.

Speaker 4: [inaudible 00:32:40] the whole bunch.

Speaker 6: Unreal.

Phil Hellmuth: Doug, you’re in the four business. It’s not a very profitable business. No it’s a bad business to be in. Doug needs a four, give us a card. There’s only three fours. He’s still 12%. Give us a card.

Phil Hellmuth: Oh. It’s a four on the turn, wow.

Speaker 6: It’s [inaudible 00:33:01] the four business.

Doug Polk: Give him a nine.

Speaker 4: The chosen one.

Speaker 6: I love the four business Phil. Thank you very much for giving me the mic for this. And, let’s see a river. No, no, no sorry, no okay.

Doug Polk: Set it up.

Phil Hellmuth: All right with one to come Doug’s going to win this pot unless a nine comes. Three nine’s. A king comes, three kings. Six out for you. 38 outs for Doug. Last card please.

Phil Hellmuth: Oh. Oh my God it’s a king on the river.

Speaker 6: Holy shit.

Phil Hellmuth: What in the world is going on here.

Speaker 6: That guy is lucky. That’s the guy that got me-

Phil Hellmuth: Wow. Kings and jacks it’s going to be jacks and fours.

Speaker 6: Hey Doug, hey Doug now I know why you’re retiring.

Phil Hellmuth: Doug, I know now why you’re retiring. It’s too tough to take the river.

Doug Polk: It was unlucky. That was unlucky.

Phil Hellmuth: I love Doug. Hey, Doug Polk, for the record I love Doug … #ILoveDougPolk okay.

Phil Hellmuth: [crosstalk 00:34:17].

Speaker 5: Let’s go Scotty.

Phil Hellmuth: Wow, what a king that was. Wow.

Speaker 5: You might fall away one.

Phil Hellmuth: I would have said nice hand.

Phil Hellmuth: I would have knocked the chair over. Swore.

Speaker 5: Yep. He would have laid on the floor.

Phil Hellmuth: Laid on the floor for 20 seconds. Yep. All true.

Phil Hellmuth: Tournament is on the line. It’s king-five versus queen-three. King-five is a two to one favorite. To win the pot and win the title. But Dan O’Brien’s won three million playing poker. Deal.

Phil Hellmuth: Just facts. There’s a three on the flop. The door card, but a king right behind it. Right now Dan needs a three. Two of those are queen, there’s three of those. Five out stand’s about 20% right now. He also wouldn’t mind a jack.

Phil Hellmuth: Give us a card. He wouldn’t mind a spade. That’s a horrible card for Dan. Almost the worst card in the deck. Dan needs a three. There’s two threes left. Two wins for Dan. 42 wins for you.

Phil Hellmuth: What?

Jeremy: If you want a name, Jeremy.

Phil Hellmuth: 42 wins for you Jeremy.

Jeremy: Woohoo.

Phil Hellmuth: That’s a woohoo moment.

Jeremy: It’s a two outer.

Phil Hellmuth: It’s a two outer.

Phil Hellmuth: Jeremy’s going win the title. Nice Job Jeremy. Well done.

Phil Hellmuth: It’s over baby. The champion has been declared, baby it’s over. You call me, it’s over baby. JD it’s over baby.